There's been this theory going around about that the Outcasts and their supporters in the Brotherhood assassinated Sarah Lyons and supporters of the Lyon's Doctrine to install Maxson as Elder and return to the traditional brotherhood values.

Does anyone else think this theory has any weight?

Where do you get that theory sir? It came up from the fallout 4 BOS story? Didnt follow their quest because im with institute in my first play

If you haven't played the Brotherhood's questline then there might be some spoilers in this thread. Just a warning.

I can't recall where I first heard this theory but I believe the Shoddycast did a video on it. It intrigued me since I wasn't a fan of the brotherhood's complete 180 in terms of how they acted in Fallout 3. Though looking back now the signs were always there.

Thanks for the spoiler warning sir

Woaa the shoddycast did it, gonna check that sir, im not done the story so i cant go back to change side to the BOS, maybe ill check the video first

Interesting story to follow btw

For me, they did XD

There're no ways the Western Brotherhood could have made a transition this important from a selfless, all-loving boy-scoutish faction to a Totalitarian faction which hates all but itself...

I knew something was fishy with FO4's Brotherhood anyway... I pretty sure that some high rank Paladins Teamed-up with some Outcasts to kill the Lyons in order for the Western Brotherhood to be re-united again with the rest of the Outcasts and the other Brotherhood chapters all across America...

Seeing Maxson's Speech about how the synths were abominations that must be destroyed made me really sad :/

I really HATE how the Brotherhood was depicted in FO4... Hell, even in New Vegas, the Mojave chapter was willing to team up with the NCR, they literal worst ennemies !!

I would agree with the theory, cause the report of Sarah Lyons death was really shady on details. It doesnt make sense though since the Lyons Pride were loyal as all hell, but it seems pretty convincing that its what happened.

I agree with FafnirEtherion that I hate what they did to the BoS in F4. I loved the Fallout 3 depiction, away from the tech hording sociopaths in Fallout 1/2. It humanised them in my eyes. Then with Fallout 4, there was a complete 180 in their position. It made no sense

But alas I do agree that the report of Lyons' death eludes to foul play

Not to mention if Sarah died then next in line will most likely be Star Paladin Cross who was a firm supporter of Lyons and his ideals, but she isn't mentioned at all. More foul play?

It wouldn't surprise me. Veronica in New Vegas mentioned that infighting like this was common and that no one really wouldn't bat an eyelash if someone met a grisly unexplained end.

I'd honestly...would have to say so. Even in FO3, Elder Lyons said that alot of the BoS members were not happy with how he was running things. I think even one of the Paladins say they are supposed to be gathering technology, not protecting the people of the Capital Wasteland.

It's a strong possibility that most of the members wanted to return to their more traditional roots (Putting technology first instead of protecting wastelanders) so they devised a plan with the Outcasts to kill off Elder Lyons, Sarah Lyons, and Lyons Pride all together. How they accomplished this is of course, unknown.

As for how the Brotherhood was depicted in FO4, I'm....mixed. On one hand, I agree. I hate how they have become more cold in FO4. My first exposure to them was in New Vegas. I liked how they were like a community and worked together and would listen to reason. Then I played FO3 and I really liked how they were helping people and combating against both the Enclave and the Super Mutants. However now they just want to wipe out synths without a second thought? Seems harsh.

However on the other hand, I felt FO4 is more realistic. The BoS is not like the Minutemen. They're not some group of people who teamed up to combat the dangers of the Wasteland. Their a military organization. FO3 and NV is a nice representation of them, but I wouldn't say it's too realistic. Besides they're not as bad in FO4 as everyone says. They won't go in shooting innocent people and while I don't agree with them on some things they are right. If left unchecked synths can be dangerous. Perhaps wiping them all out is a bit harsh, but letting synth run around freely is also a bad idea.

Oh yeah, without a doubt. The logs are beyond propogandic, and Elder Maxson being so young a leader can obviously go by oblivious to the dirty deeds of his own faction. Being young, his views of the Brotherhood are extreme, but at so young an age theu are still considered ideal to the overall faction, one that integrated both the Citadel chapter and Outcasts who had been at each others throats for the longest.

Or the lone wanderer did in fact kill the brotherhood in fnv ..... and maybe that's the canon ?

lukaboot wrote:

Or the lone wanderer did in fact kill the brotherhood in fnv ..... and maybe that's the canon ?

Heres a question. What happens to the lone wanderer?

I mean we are told he leaves the Capital 10 years after project purity (Cannon - 2288) and Fallout 4 is in 2287, so wouldnt he have a say in what happens, since the cannon ending is that he joined the BoS in 2277. Maybe they killed him too.

@2pacDre Given the Wanderer's personal confrontation of the Enclave, I like to think that the Wanderer created a separate chapter, or ultimately left altogether. Still, age and experience takes a toll on one in the Wasteland.

I feel like bethesda's portrayal of the brotherhood in fallout 3 gets too much crap. It's very clearly explained why they became these saintly knights and even addressed with the outcast situation, and completely reasonable, including them trekking all the way to D.C. Anyways, I totally believe that both Elder Lyons and Sarah Lyons were assassinated, which is a shame because I really liked sarah's character even though it was poorly handeled and could have had more to it.

The FO4 Brotherhood has been described by many as a Nazi-esque organization with their goal to purge those they believe to be 'impure' (Synths, ghouls, super mutants). They remind me a lot of an organization that also had the same goals and locked horns with the Brotherhood on more than one occasion. Guess they weren't so different after all...

Wanderer101 wrote:

The FO4 Brotherhood has been described by many as a Nazi-esque organization with their goal to purge those they believe to be 'impure' (Synths, ghouls, super mutants). They remind me a lot of an organization that also had the same goals and locked horns with the Brotherhood on more than one occasion. Guess they weren't so different after all...

To be fair, they both originated from the same corrupt pre war military and have always been jerks to outsiders, excluding lyons.